Discussion:
Eno Reviews "Weapons of Mass Deception"
(too old to reply)
kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
2003-08-17 20:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Yeah as an easterner i was always amazed at how westerners could be so damn
blind to their propaganda.
Book review in The Observer, by Brian, of "Weapons of Mass Deception" by
Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1020303,00.html
BlueT
------------------
"Follow your breathing, dwell mindfully on your steps, and soon you will
find
your balance." ~ Thich Naht Hanh
Electric Aunt Jemima
2003-08-20 03:35:08 UTC
Permalink
I'm a "westerner" and I'm beginning to sense that I've been blind for years.

I highly recommend a CD entitled "The Fire This Time". Its main commercial
selling point is its soundtrack of music by Aphex Twin, Orbital, Black Lung,
Higher Intelligence Agency, Michael Stearns, Soma, etc. But the real reason
to hear it is the narration about Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, and the whole "Persian
Gulf", from the dawn of history to the end of the 20th century. It doesn't
reach as close to us as the World Trade Center destruction, yet it describes
the horrible recent history of U.S. involvement in the Gulf and allows you
to draw your own conclusions.

Technically, this has nothing to do with Eno explicitly. It just seems the
right time to mention it.

--D
Post by kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
Yeah as an easterner i was always amazed at how westerners could be so damn
blind to their propaganda.
Book review in The Observer, by Brian, of "Weapons of Mass Deception" by
Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1020303,00.html
BlueT
------------------
"Follow your breathing, dwell mindfully on your steps, and soon you will
find
your balance." ~ Thich Naht Hanh
Charles Martin
2003-08-21 08:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
Yeah as an easterner i was always amazed at how westerners could be so damn
blind to their propaganda.
Many of us AREN'T blind to it ... but we are willing to wait patiently
for the next election. I think a majority of Americans realise we have a
very bad leader in office right now.
--
Cheers,
_Chas_
http://www.apple.com/switch
non-spammers can write to chasm at mac (dot com)
Mikel Midnight
2003-08-27 13:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Martin
Many of us AREN'T blind to it ... but we are willing to wait patiently
for the next election. I think a majority of Americans realise we have a
very bad leader in office right now.
What do you base that on? Polls still have him ahead (though his
popularity has fallen somewhat), and most Americans still think he has
their best interests at heart. I think we're in for another four
years, especially given the Dem's inability to find a good front man.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
***@blaklion.best.vwh.net
___________________________________________________http://blaklion.best.vwh.net
Blue108uk
2003-08-28 08:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Eno Reviews "Weapons of Mass Deception"
Date: 27/08/2003 14:05 GMT Daylight Time
Post by Charles Martin
Many of us AREN'T blind to it ... but we are willing to wait patiently
for the next election. I think a majority of Americans realise we have a
very bad leader in office right now.
What do you base that on?
--
Where to start?
A draft-dodging head of the military, an alcoholic born-again christian, who
used to snort coke, a man who failed in every business venture his daddy ever
gave him and who only got where he is via electoral fraud thanks to his brother
Jeb; a destabiliser of world peace, bent on illegally invading countries to
extend a new US empire, whose country is illegally developing chemical
weaponry; is fuelling the nuclear arms race via the development of
nukes-lite™ mini-nuclear bombs that can be used in conventional warfare; the
leader of a party who have increased unaccountability in the police and
intelligence services and attacked Americans civil liberties; who have
"disappeared" members of foreign countries, breaching their Human Rights; who
are in breach of the Geneva convention for the treatment of detaionees at
Gunatanamo Bay, and in Basra Airport where officials have admitted to torturing
to death two detainees; Bush has lied to the American people using a compliant,
complicit and uncritical media, has had government educational and health
websites altered to show information in keeping with his administartion's
beliefs; has fought to keep US troops from international accountability for war
crimes; is entirely unconcerned, even scornful of environmental concerns, in
deference to his oil buddies (and family) and has been entirely fiscally
irresponsible, increasing the US deficit through wars and tax-cuts for the
rich.

I'm sure there's more, but I have other things to do.

Apart from those things, yeah, he's fine; good for the US, good for the world.

[I know this is going to turn into a George W flame-war, but he did ask.]

Blue™
sodderboy
2003-08-28 15:00:23 UTC
Permalink
A bit of a lefty leap of a comparison, Brian. How about some music!
The Dixie Chicks just had their music pulled from radio stations at
the request of listeners, whereas dissenting russian musicians were
arrested and built the Moscow Canal, by hand tools only, until they
starved to death.

Prop-agenda is much weaker than Eno thinks because it exists within a
modern free press. Any new shred of a "fact", pro or con any "point
of the day" is analyzed from all sides in layers of different media.
alt.eno, BBC, CNN, DW, RFI, and the local pub are just "points of
light" in the massive free press constellation. Bush/Blair have been
hammered for months, having every little detail scrutinized, and
time-tabled by hundreds of journalists. All the info is out there for
anyone who cares. If Rolling Stone is the only place one gets
information, they are news-tritionally deficient at their own fault.
Luckily these types are also too lazy to vote!

Propaganda exists only in the vacuum of freedom. Stalin, Hitler- oh
and I have to mention Hirohito and Pol Pot for our pious "eastern"
friend, all controlled the press, and thus the masses. For germans or
russians to say now "but we knew it was propaganda" still means that
they swallowed and followed, because anything else would have meant
probable death. "But we knew"- this is just the human ego
rationalizing life under totalitarian oppression. People DID dance in
the streets in Iraq and Afghanistan after their oppressors were
removed. To say that they are being oppressed now by the coalition
soldiers sounds a bit extreme and shrill to me. Not perfect, but also
not oppression.

This pulp paperback from Rampton and Stauber is part of the free
press. I am sure they started their next tract by candlelight last
week: "Power to the People! The Real Truth about the Corporate
Control of our Power Grid". All the LIES! in this book have long been
digested in the media. This book is like factoidal fast food- it is
quick and it satisfies, but it will not last long. Their LIES! and
LIARS! exposed are like little candies that will be forgotten when the
big meal of mass divulgence is served. And, they did not analyze the
biased Prop-agenda regarding the pillaging of the Iraqi National
Museum- my personal favorite so far. "How could the US and the US
military allow the history of the world to be looted!" How many weeks
was that demagogue-d to death! To say that there is powerful PR
control over the media when we saw and read about the female curator
shreiking through the museum, over and over and over, on CBS, CNN,
MSNBC, Deutche Welle, BBC, RAI, Interscope, Al Jazeera, Fox, New York
Times, Salon.com, Time, etc. It was BIG NEWS! No one gave the
eventual truth, that the artifacts were actually locked in storage,
much air or column space though. Total lies being proven so by the
patient passage of time, although brainwashed MTV types still think it
like, happened, yo.

When a real body of evidence is presented to the world, just imagine
the analysis that will go on! Everyone and their favorite musician
will have a different opinion, for or against, truth or lie. And they
will be able to express them in most countries without getting a
piano-wire necklace inna Saddam-stylie. A few countries where there
is no free press, whaddaya know, happen to be on the short list of
terror supporters.

Brian Eno will not be a happy camper into the future here, because the
war on terror ain't over. Those cocka-roaches have scrambled, and it
will take some time to get them. Last year there was a 30 year low
in the number of terrorist attacks worldwide, as reported by the UN,
but you will not hear that from Brian Eno. . .
sodderboy
2003-09-06 01:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Hey, your post sounds a bit like prop-agenda. Emotional statements.
And don't confuse force with propaganda.
And, BBC perhaps... but CNN, DW?! Don't be silly.
I don't even want to go over the rest of your post, most of it is too stupid
and non-factual.
And what the fuck is these "MTV types", or "Rolling Stone" stuff, are you
ill? who the fuck are you
and what are you doing in alt.music.eno?
Maybe after i eat i'll go over your post.
I love the "after i eat" comment. Did you mean food or Prop-agenda?
Brilliant!

Sorry honey, but you cannot help but get emotional when you stand at
the Moscow Canal, the beaches of Normandy, or walk through the dust of
your fellow citizens at the World Trade Center. Those places of
horribly wasted human life are truth, not Prop-agenda.

As for why I am here, well, it is a long story that began when a small
boy of 10 heard "Autobahn", sniffle, late one night. "On Land" opened
my eyes to the existance of recording studios, which I now build and
maintain. The electronical obsession will hopefully never end. As
for politics, all I can say is that my second 20 years of life has
made a HUGE difference in my point of view. And, alt.waynenewton
really blows! ;)

I certainly have a different opinion than you, and I am glad I do not
need to curse to express it. I shudder to think that someone might
conduct alt.eno like a "History of Religion" course at Havana
University, or a MTV MVA show.

God, yes, I said, shudder, GOD bless freedom of speech. What the left
does not understand is that you cannot force someone to listen to
"free speech". That would be. . . . . . Propaganda!
Michael Peters
2003-09-08 07:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by sodderboy
but you cannot help but get emotional when you stand at
the Moscow Canal, the beaches of Normandy, or walk through the dust of
your fellow citizens at the World Trade Center. Those places of
horribly wasted human life are truth, not Prop-agenda.
yes, or the 24.000 people that díe _every day_, many of them children, many
of them due to the effects of US led globalization ... but then hey, what
are 24.000 third world people _every day_ against the _more important_ WTC
deaths ... for these were Americans, people from the holy land that owns
truth and freedom ...

-m
Stiiv
2003-09-08 11:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Peters
yes, or the 24.000 people that díe _every day_, many of them children, many
of them due to the effects of US led globalization
What a crock of shit. Please keep lies like this to yourself.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
Michael Peters
2003-09-09 06:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stiiv
Post by Michael Peters
yes, or the 24.000 people that díe _every day_, many of them children, many
of them due to the effects of US led globalization
What a crock of shit. Please keep lies like this to yourself.
Not a lie. The 24000 are a realistic estimate due to the United States
Embassy page
http://usembassy.state.gov/tokyo/wwwh20030304b4.html
(the very first page that I found on Google looking for "24000 hunger
daily".)

That page says,
Post by Stiiv
more than 24,000 persons still die daily from hunger and related causes,
according to the World Food Program

That US led globalization is responsible for many of them, not in North
Korea of course but in countries of the 3rd world like in Africa, can be
believed or doubted. It would have been more correct to say that the age of
colonization and its numberless repercussions is mostly responsible for
them, as most historians would agree, but in my view, globalization which is
mostly led by American trusts (as most political scientists would agree) is
in effect not very different from colonization. Of course you could say that
it is a completely different phenomenon. Ok then.

-Michael
Stiiv
2003-09-09 13:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Peters
the age of
colonization and its numberless repercussions is mostly responsible for
them, as most historians would agree
More bullshit. Most of these people are starving because their
countries' leaders are unable or unwilling to run their nations in an
intelligent manner. Haiti is my favorite example, but Africa is full
of 'em too. How many Africans would have starved if there were no
colonial powers of any kind? Stone-age peoples tend to starve because
they simply can't adjust to changing natural conditions. Blaming the
evil euros for all the world's problems is currently fashionable, but
ultimately wrong. Western (i.e. American/British) civilization is the
only hope for the world's survival. Live it or live with it.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
sodderboy
2003-09-09 18:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Michael, I think your music is beautiful and incredibly provoking, but
please with the "US led globalization". Innovation gives you an
entire music studio inside of a laptop. Every synth or plugin you get
buys you into the "US based Globalization" you condem. If you eschew
globalization and hyprocracy, go find an already dead tree and dead
cow, make your own drum, and perform for your neighbors. Transistors,
IC's, telecommunication, the DARPANET, even your patchbay are
technologies resulting from wartime research which are now used for
good in the world.

In your reasearch, not opinion, what percentage of the 24,000 daily
deaths do you roughly attribute to "US led globalization"?
Turn it around, and think of the people who live due to your so-called
"US based globalization"? antibiotics, pharma, electricity,
refrigeration, communication, etc. are international innovations
responsible for many lives saved, improved, and CREATED. Acting
locally, I am involved with a group that brings children from all over
the world to the NYC area for life SAVING heart surgery. They also
train doctors in other countries to do the "routine" open-heart
procedures locally. I am sure I could think of some Prop-agenda
blaming the the US for little kids born with bad hearts, but it would
take some time for me to slither my thoughts that low.

Using blanket accusations like " the owner of truth and freedom" is
pure Prop-agenda. There is no basis in fact there. Gab es viele Amis
oder Tommies in der naehe von dir, als dich Kinder war? Dann kann ich
dich ein bisschen verstehen. Aber denkst du ehrlich, dass diese
Soldaten glauben, "Wir bezetzen Wichtigkeit und Freihiet"?. Ganz
falsch. The fringe nuts in the US who believe that they "own truth
and freedom" are about as large as the number of fringe nuts who want
an anarchistic revolution to lead us to an agrarian, modern-primitve
civilization. Both groups quite in the minority, but their
sensationalism gets attention from a "news media" that has nothing
"new" to report second to seconnd. I am with Blob there. You never
hear about the rational people.

sodderboy
kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
2003-09-09 20:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Ok, now i see that you (Sodderboy) don't know a thing you're talking about.
CUNY TV did a nice series (i wish i could bring up the name!), you should
have
watched it. They explained it better then i can. So, they thoroughly covered
the differences
in history with the 3rd world, colonial history, antibiotics too.
Maybe my english is not so good, but you are either dumb, or have been
brainwashed, or both.
As for the "heart surgery" stuff, i couldn't get why you brought it up,
bragging perhaps?
And what was that you wrote in german? I can't read german.
You're not german, are you?
Post by sodderboy
In your reasearch, not opinion, what percentage of the 24,000 daily
deaths do you roughly attribute to "US led globalization"?
Turn it around, and think of the people who live due to your so-called
"US based globalization"? antibiotics, pharma, electricity,
refrigeration, communication, etc. are international innovations
responsible for many lives saved, improved, and CREATED. Acting
locally, I am involved with a group that brings children from all over
the world to the NYC area for life SAVING heart surgery. They also
train doctors in other countries to do the "routine" open-heart
procedures locally. I am sure I could think of some Prop-agenda
blaming the the US for little kids born with bad hearts, but it would
take some time for me to slither my thoughts that low.
Using blanket accusations like " the owner of truth and freedom" is
pure Prop-agenda. There is no basis in fact there. Gab es viele Amis
oder Tommies in der naehe von dir, als dich Kinder war? Dann kann ich
dich ein bisschen verstehen. Aber denkst du ehrlich, dass diese
Soldaten glauben, "Wir bezetzen Wichtigkeit und Freihiet"?. Ganz
falsch. The fringe nuts in the US who believe that they "own truth
and freedom" are about as large as the number of fringe nuts who want
an anarchistic revolution to lead us to an agrarian, modern-primitve
civilization. Both groups quite in the minority, but their
sensationalism gets attention from a "news media" that has nothing
"new" to report second to seconnd. I am with Blob there. You never
hear about the rational people.
sodderboy
sodderboy
2003-09-10 02:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
Ok, now i see that you (Sodderboy) don't know a thing you're talking about.
CUNY TV did a nice series (i wish i could bring up the name!), you should
have
watched it. They explained it better then i can. So, they thoroughly covered
the differences
in history with the 3rd world, colonial history, antibiotics too.
Maybe my english is not so good, but you are either dumb, or have been
brainwashed, or both.
As for the "heart surgery" stuff, i couldn't get why you brought it up,
bragging perhaps?
And what was that you wrote in german? I can't read german.
You're not german, are you?
Stop repeating yourself. I know you think I am just a big fat german
right-wing dummy-head! Fine. Point made. Now run along and watch
some more telly. . . Blob has me burning the brain cells considering
our dilemna as a dichotomy or a duality. I am swinging towards
duality, because I did not know true love in life until I felt real
hate. I did not know that there was immence joy within grief until my
father died in my arms. "Vehement emotions" that cannot be
experienced watching reality TV.
Click
kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
2003-09-10 04:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Wow, now you labled me a TV junkie!
Post by sodderboy
Post by kudamonosenka aloe yogurto
Ok, now i see that you (Sodderboy) don't know a thing you're talking about.
CUNY TV did a nice series (i wish i could bring up the name!), you should
have
watched it. They explained it better then i can. So, they thoroughly covered
the differences
in history with the 3rd world, colonial history, antibiotics too.
Maybe my english is not so good, but you are either dumb, or have been
brainwashed, or both.
As for the "heart surgery" stuff, i couldn't get why you brought it up,
bragging perhaps?
And what was that you wrote in german? I can't read german.
You're not german, are you?
Stop repeating yourself. I know you think I am just a big fat german
right-wing dummy-head! Fine. Point made. Now run along and watch
some more telly. . . Blob has me burning the brain cells considering
our dilemna as a dichotomy or a duality. I am swinging towards
duality, because I did not know true love in life until I felt real
hate. I did not know that there was immence joy within grief until my
father died in my arms. "Vehement emotions" that cannot be
experienced watching reality TV.
Click
unknown
2003-09-08 14:38:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by sodderboy
Hey, your post sounds a bit like prop-agenda. Emotional statements.
And don't confuse force with propaganda.
And, BBC perhaps... but CNN, DW?! Don't be silly.
I don't even want to go over the rest of your post, most of it is too stupid
and non-factual.
And what the fuck is these "MTV types", or "Rolling Stone" stuff, are you
ill? who the fuck are you
and what are you doing in alt.music.eno?
Maybe after i eat i'll go over your post.
I love the "after i eat" comment. Did you mean food or Prop-agenda?
Brilliant!
Sorry honey, but you cannot help but get emotional when you stand at
the Moscow Canal, the beaches of Normandy, or walk through the dust of
your fellow citizens at the World Trade Center. Those places of
horribly wasted human life are truth, not Prop-agenda.
I can find this same discussion in almost every usnet group. The same words and
examples. The same vehement emotions. Left and Right, they have their catch
phrases, examples they cite and those they prefer to ignore, heroes and
villains. Reality is not in either of these camps. Yet this dichotomy makes a
fertile ground for manipulation. When one of the heroes of either camp states
their case for some action using the usual "pushbutton" words and phrases,
they've got a ready-made army of largely unthinking backers.
There doesn't seem much room these days for rational consideration of anything.
Stiiv
2003-09-09 05:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
they've got a ready-made army of largely unthinking backers.
There doesn't seem much room these days for rational consideration of anything.
Being passionate about something you belive in doesn't make you
"unthinking" or "irrational". SOME THINGS ARE NOT NEGOTIABLE.


Stiiv

http://www.stiiv.com
sodderboy
2003-09-10 17:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Apropriately during this exchange of opinions, Leni Riefenstahl- the
princess of propaganda and the mistress of mise-en-scene, has died.
Even she could not take it! This modem is going in the "lock-box".
Click

Loading...